Practice and Performance Psychology With Greg Spence and Mark Bain: Part 1

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[Music] hi and welcome you’re watching a windworks subscriber update video by mystery toy.com and the title of today’s video is exploring the psychology in process of practice and performance featuring trumpet and performance psychology Guru Mark bane of the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra and yours truly Greg Spen check this out many people struggle today to improve on the trumpet and this is because they misunderstand how the instrument works and don’t know what or how to practice effectively most methods just offer more and more exercises and this is

where they fall short they fail to uncover the real problems luckily there’s a way to get far better results and it’s much faster than I actually ever thought possible the amazing windworks course helped me to improve much faster than other methods by revealing the flaws in my belief systems and my approach to Brass playing with just a few drills and exercises a day I felt my mind and body changed like never before and my playing was Freer and easier than I could ever imagine it works

by eliminating inefficient playing habits and providing a structured and achievable program suitable for players of all standards simply go to mystery.com that’s mystery toy.com and sign up for the windworks course now it takes less than a minute it’s free to sign up now and it’ll change your life forever click the link in the description below to get started so the reason we’ll get started yep um and if we’ve had technical issues mark this is the joy of the joy Joy of learning really Joy of learning

the joy of performance and I had this Epiphany on the golf course this morning I had a few actually and it ties exactly into what we’re going to be talking about today awesome it’s the psychological impact of this whole concept is people don’t like making errors MH let’s translate that people don’t like learning yeah right it’s as simple as that isn’t it yeah and so the fear in performance is a fear of an error and the for those that are watching and wondering what on Earth

we’re going on about Mark welcome to you know I’m sorry the event thing didn’t happen the way we like it to but it was good to put the event out there wasn’t it so well totally oh yeah we know we know what to do for next time it’s all good well yeah well we’ll keep developing it uh is that Mark runs performance Under Pressure which I’d like to learn more about website and Facebook page about performance anxiety and tricks and drills to overcome the uh the

fear it’s a fight andlight response yeah how do we do that there’s a lot of strategies involved and with all of my work with with focal distonia students there is a at times a degree of performance anxiety could be a contributing factor to the development of focal distonia now we’ll get into that later but there’s a wide range of uh elements involved in people developing this dreaded condition uh so we’ got lots to talk about and Mark and I spoke last Friday and that’s when we

decided Ed to to go live today and we were going to write a little list and we thought because we were talking and I said we should be recording this and he’s gone well let’s do it well let’s prepare it a little bit let’s get organized and let’s see if these good messages are coming through um why did we meet up Mark can you tell us what you’re on about yeah sure I think I mean you got in touch with me I I think we work

together many many years ago I remember you came down and did I think it was a Tim mtion show um Mark is the principal trumpet player of the Tasmanian toy trumpet I’m second in charge not first whoever’s playing first they’re not I be yorum he’s not one toy how does it work I don’t I don’t understand the language of toy trumpet is the the second trumpet in the orchestra so I play anything from second down um but I don’t play principal so I’m kind of a

wing I did had a you know indeed yeah we all know that second trumpet’s the harder book even in a big band wow lead’s easy yeah but uh yeah so I think so we met many years ago and then uh I’ve been following your stuff for many years as well and that’s I I I’ve learned so much from you so it’s been amazing so thank you first and foremost um but yeah uh for me then I deal with a lot of uh students and clients that

work through performance issues not only how they practice but performance anxiety and that sort of got me um in that direction was my own performance anxiety to start off with and trying to to work through that um and then I think you just got in touch and yeah we clearly there’s some there’s some similarities with the focal gonia research and performance anxiety research so I think you just got in touch and went hey let’s uh meet up and yeah so I think it’s a it’s great

to get different areas and different skill sets together and so we can actually work through this because I see it all as just pieces in a jigsaw puzzle I think what Greg what you bring is certain pieces in a jigsaw puzzle that will click for some people what I bring is other different pieces and different aspects and I think that’s where collaboration is super important doing things like this so we can actually work out where the piece is all fit in cuz I’m still working it

out so right yeah and I came up with a term this morning I was driving into JB Hi-Fi to buy a new little light which was on special I know why it doesn’t work unless I’m holding the on button it keeps turning off that’s why I’m not facing another way love it anyway I’m driving along the road there’s a map exercises technical exercises are a map you don’t have a vessel meaning a car or boat out in the shipping lanes whatever wear a vessel for a

musical idea right and everyone spends their time not everyone but a lot of people most people spend their time looking at the exercises looking at the map going I want to get there but the motor’s not working so I came up with a term high performance vessel because a vessel is we The Vessel of a musical idea right and that is up here there’s a musical idea and we want to put that musical idea into the room so I can hear it and people can hear

it adds to the environment Arnold Jacob said I he would hear the sound he he’d see the the the note on the page and he knows what it sounds like and he imagines what it would s what it should sound like in the environment and then he’d put that sound there it’d mirror the idea in the head so the body is the vessel for the musical idea high performance vessel we want we don’t want a machine and I’ve often been criticized for being over analytical with

the technique techniques of brass playing but my response to that is if there’s what’s the problem if there’s a problem we need to fix it right so so we’re both trying to develop an efficient vessel with a clear musical message that we want to put into the environment and somewhere along the line it becomes complicated and what do you find are the main contributors to people experiencing performance anxiety I I think you mentioned before fear that’s a definitely a big one that that comes in but

I think underlying a lot of that fear is your attachment to your own ego it’s basically a lot about ego and if we have an attachment if we go on stage and we’re about to perform something and if you think I Okay g I have to perform my absolute best and and do this really perfectly and as soon as I make a mistake that’s a judgment on me as a person that means I’m a bad person cuz I made a mistake or that means I’m a

bad musician cuz I made a mistake then of course you’re going to walk on stage with this heightened anxiety of people are going to judge me as who I am right which is like it’s such a a dangerous road to go down and it’s difficult for musicians because we spend so much time by ourself with an instrument in our hands trying to refine our craft and get better at what we do so naturally there’s a bit of a a fusion between who we are and what

we do whereas it’s in my work it’s really about trying to help people realize what they value in music what they love about music but also realizing that it’s just a part of who they are it’s not it’s not everything and so um there’s a great uh performance coach by the name of Ben Crow he um coached uh ashb so Ash’s mindset coach sport uh he he used to work for Nike so used to work in marketing and then he went and and he’s done like

Surfers and Richmond football club and ashb and amazing guy ashb the tennis player or the cricketer or the golfer who’s coming up everything she’ll win the Australian Open you know that yeah she’s amazing yeah we need to talk to her yeah I mean she is a she is an incredible example of going on to the tennis court or the cricket field or the golf course and realizing that this is just something she does it’s just a part of her and then when she steps off then

she’s in there Ash body the person so you’re separating the person from the Persona right and as soon as those two become intertwined that’s when you start getting real difficulties get caught up in your the you know the what’s it the false um identity yeah yeah abely and so it’s about sort of teasing that apart but also realizing that when you step on stage you’re more than just a musician you are a person I’m a father I’m a friend colleague all sorts of um different roles

that I play and just because I make a mistake that doesn’t mean that I’m a failure it just means that I can learn from that mistake and I can leave that on stage and then walk off stage and go okay I’m still a good person I am who I am right and as you’d very well know of course the more you’re concerned about these mistakes the more that they’re actually going to happen yeah um which happens all the time and and then so not worrying about

uh mistakes you can’t have confidence and doubt at the same time they don’t coexist and if there’s doubt and even if there’s something uh you it’s really tricky trying to keep an eye on the messages and and keep the train of thought so I won’t look over while I’m talking talking um if if you’re thinking technically and I you know I just experienced it on the golf course and my golf was developing and I said my handicap’s 18 I’m going to be nine in 12 months

I’m putting it on the record M shots to drop where does the mind go first where does the mind go if you go to play an exercise if you go to play drill if you go to walk on stage monitor where the brain goes CU that that’s where the D is and it’s putting on a platter the things that you need to work on and you know after I you know make an error that says okay you didn’t do that very well and the error is

the we need to fix that there’s something wrong here but you can’t be worried about going up to hit the golf ball where’s it going to go what’s going to happen it can’t be doubt I’m confident that I can stand up there and swing the golf club and there’s a chance that the mo ball might go well now don’t forget I’m a hack I’m not a professional and as you develop the stakes get higher and higher but watch professionals there’s the thing called The Yips if

you don’t have confidence in your ability to chip or putt you’re in Strife to the point where the body reacts there’s focal Donia of the sporting level there’s doubt there’s ego there’s identity there’s fear pressure at the end of the day we’re musicians aren’t we and we’ve got an idea we love the sound of the trumpet well I’m guessing we do why did you start playing trumpet how did that happen for me it was I grew up in a musical family so I had music all

around me um yeah my oldest brother if you listen to the last few Star Wars movies and you hear a horn player that’s him um so you yeah I’ve got a bit to uh you know the honor of having recorded with him on a a great album uh young guy H singer his name will come to me shortly but it was a great session and having Andrew sit behind me and hook in was really exciting yeah he’s a pretty good player he’s you know he’s done

he’s done a little bit of practice in his time as well so um but for me it was kind of uh so my eldest Brother played horn um second oldest played euphonium third oldest played trombone and I think they got to me and they went well we need a trumpet player so here’s a trumpet so it was kind of chosen for me but then it it slowly grew and uh yeah and it became stronger and stronger and I really enjoyed what I was doing so first

time I’ve done this oh my internet connection’s unstable that’s going to go well o hopefully everything’s okay that’s all right get back now it’s all good would you suggest that having siblings older players good quality good standard may have contributed to your earlier um performance anxiety issues yes absolutely did they ever have yeah pressure yeah I mean for me it was that um again I mean it comes down to Ego as well it’s like you have that sort of expectation that oh GE my my brothers

they’ve done really well that means I have to achieve that too um and so then there is that additional pressure and and uh yeah absolutely it’s something that I’ve struggled with a lot um but I think through that though I’ve learned a lot and now I can help a lot of other people um and this is one thing I realize yeah and it’s one thing I realize about making mistakes and Performing and failure and things like that is like if you can approach it approach every

performance opportunity as a learning experience as opposed to a judgment experience then you can’t lose you really can’t because you you’re taking something you’re gaining something from every performance even if it’s a complete disaster even if you do an audition and it’s a complete failure like I did one audition I lasted about 30 seconds and then they went see you later you’re it’s not not up to scratch um but from that experience if I didn’t have that I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing today right

so it’s always about take Taking what what are you gaining from every performance that you do what are you taking from it what are you learn learning from it and um yeah so I took I’ve taken a lot from my brothers and their experience and learned a lot about myself in that process as well um was it Pleasant no but I’ve learned a lot from it and now I’m a lot stronger so I think that’s the whole aim of the game really well this is what

I put up this morning about the errors errors are the your commanding the body to do something to create to undertake a task physical task and ours is Artistic as well as physical there’s a vision a sound and audiation in the mind of what we want to create and then the muscles have to respond accordingly there’s one reality as far as I know there’s one reality which is right now you and me sitting here talking yeah then whatever happens happens if the um internet goes down

oh that’s disappointing right so what are we going to do here well I’ll quickly jump across and get on to cellular on my phone we’ll do something given the circumstances what comes to mind I spoke at the University of North Texas and got up there as the biggest presentation of my life being invited to to go there and I’m setting up the computer and my little laptop and this guy comes up and says Greg no you don’t need your laptop just have you got it on

USB your PowerPoint presentation and I went uh yeah so I gave him my USB and he plugged it into his system that was there and he said any issues um just yell out and I’ve tested the first page and it started on the screen and I the audio started with a a lot of that I do lights are bright Full House and I’ve gone ladies and gentlemen I’m so thrilled to be at North Texas State University there’s so many amazing players in Australia it’s got a

huge reputation and to be standing here talking to you today is so exciting for me and I was being very very sincere and then I pressed the button to start and it was dead silence and it was supposed to be a video with audio it’s a great little intro video nothing and what did I do I laughed this is the biggest for me in my mind for my career the biggest presentation that I’ve done and this was just before doing the Midwest clinic and the video

didn’t play and my reaction to that was who gets to experience A Moment Like This you know cuz you can go into meltdown mode and panic or you go there’s one reality how are we going to get around this and I’ve looked up and the picture was there and it had Frozen and I looked at the computer and it said no video Codec installed on this computer so it couldn’t play videos so I had to explain what all the videos were about through the whole presentation

so when we understand that things are going to happen and we learn from from it what did I learn from that never ever ever use somebody else’s technology technology right and so it’s how we deal with these things and it’s all about preparation right I was going to be using my laptop here today my my iPad and just as I started Zoom it said live stream to YouTube but the live stream to Facebook option isn’t on the iPad R let’s get sorted here so the psychology

behind behind it and the expectation it’s all about expectation and I wouldn’t imagine that your approach with your clients is managing expectation what are your strategies yeah absolutely I think um yeah whatever everything you’re saying is yeah spot on it’s great and and I think as well when we step on stage uh it’s also expectation of you know you’ve done the work that you can actually perform but it’s also being willing to accept any outcome that happens if you can walk on such like I had

a client last week and I said to him if you can walk on stage and be able to accept yourself for any outcome good bad or indifferent if you can accept that how would that feel and he was like well I’d probably feel like I can really go for it really let go let loose and really um play my absolute best because you’re not constrained by one particular out you’re not constrained by Perfection now perfectionism is rif in the classical music world and it’s it’s a

one of the main causes of focal distonia yeah as well and one of the main causes of Music performance anxiety because if you’re aiming for Perfection and that is your outcome that you have to achieve man that’s a whole bunch of pressure and you start to thinking all the nuts and bolts and internally so you start to mess around with your Technique um it’s not fun whereas if you can step on stage and accept yourself as a person and as a musician for playing imperfectly if

you can do that it actually gives you a higher chance of playing better so it’s it’s a paradox but absolutely it is yeah it’s absolutely true and also I’m sure anyone who’s a musician who’s done a gig in any level watching will have the day where they’ve come off and they’ve thought that they’ve played terrific and no one will say anything you have the day where you come off and you feel like you’ve played like a monkey and people come up go man you sounded good

today and on that point one of the best things I learned from a guy named Ashley Cross at Victorian College of the Arts is when somebody pays you a compliment always say thank you no matter how badly you think you performed if someone takes the energy and the time to come up to you and say geez sounded great today even on the inside of your brain you’re CH instrument away say thank you very much because if you don’t say that your disrespect if you stand there

and go oh no I was [ __ ] I I did the I miss that night ra that’s just disrespecting their opinion and we shouldn’t do that and another thing that I’m sure that you do a lot of is and I’m the same one of the reasons that we’re talking here today is because I want to engage with my subscribers and my students more I tend to want to stay away and not bother them that’s not the way to do it we need to be sharing

all this stuff it’s easy staying at home in the comfort zone and not sharing your St I feel that too as well so I’m totally with you there m it’s it’s just a it’s it’s really tough to reprogram so I’m working on Greg 3.0 because Greg 2.0 was the chop change and learning all the technical stuff right Greg 3.0 is how to become a better educator and you know running windworks to the best potential possible for the best outcomes for my subscribers and if I keep

telling myself I can’t do this and I that I don’t know what to do I don’t know what to do I don’t know what to do it’s funny the brain goes I don’t know what to do but if you say to yourself I can do this what does it look like sound like feel like to do what I need to get the results that I want I can do it so one of the strategies I’m using I’m sure Julie won’t mind me using her name she’s

got focal Tonia and we’re doing music music musicians focal distonia do something I won’t say it out loud yet because this website isn’t up yet but it’s going to be a great resource for focal Estonia is when she goes to do an execute a uh an exercise I’ll ask a question uh now can you do this for me and they’ll once upon a time there was a hesitation a lot of thoughts a lot of wheels turning oh yeah okay I’m not filled with confidence here so

the instant response when I ask a demand is hey J can you do this of course I can m is the result is the answer yeah and in saying that out loud starts to build a different pathway of course I can because there’s confidence that you can do it and then when you make the what the error and you don’t get the desired result then you’ve got the idea of what you wanted to achieve versus what actually happened and then you go no no that’s not

what I wanted and there again that’s what you need to work on how easy is that this is simple what do I want what can I do what can I sometimes do what can’t I do what does it look like what does it sound like if you’re going to get on stage and on that same trip when I was overseas it was a performance with the um was it the Texas Allstar big band for the international trumpet Guild Jazz conference I’m playing lead trumpet when I

got asked do the gig I said no I said there’s a lot of good lead trumpet players in Texas you don’t need me they go no no no no you got to do it Bobby Sho Kay Jenkins ingr Jensen out the front and I’m playing lead freaking out yeah get up on stage what does it sound like what is the sound that I wanted to make I had to detach myself from The Experience go just make the sound like the Jacob’s thing put the sound out

there and if you’re thinking sound you’re more than halfway there if you’ve done the preparation and you’re able to do that you’re actually physically able to play the repertoire then you’re 3/4 of the way there then we’re humans and you could have the most talented person golfer tennis player water skier uh not skydiving if could first you if at first you don’t succeed don’t trust God daring is not for you so it’s just the reality thing of what am I able to do and I’ve done

everything I possibly can Adam Scott was six shots up and got beaten by Ernie Els on the British Open and he goes I had a bad day that’s okay I’m human everyone has bad days and it’s how we deal with that if there was an element of his game that wasn’t strong he’d go away and look at that particular element and that’s what makes us better over the long period of time I’ve had massive failures in my career and you learn from it yeah I think

I think as well a a great Point here is that the only person that you can compare yourself is to who you were yesterday if you compare yourself to who’s sitting in the audience you know if you compared yourself to Bobby Shu and those you know other big guys you’re dead before you even play a note right it’s not a fair comparison as well because they’ve got different experiences to what you have and so then if you can say okay who was I yesterday okay I

want to be a tiny bit better today than what I was yesterday if I can do that I’ve achieved my personal best if you continually strive for your personal best you again you can’t lose you’re setting up a game where you can’t lose because you’re improving yourself every single day and you’re making a fair comparison because it’s you you know your own circumstance there’s a caveat here though I we’re definitely striving for that 100% but if you like you ask any Sportsman anyone at the Olympics

if you expect to get personal best personal best personal best person personal best every single day that’s not going to happen that’s not real however striving for it I got three different um like development strategies oh ideas reality when I play round of golf consolidation day it was what I did yesterday pretty similar wasn’t you know oh come on internet then you’ve got progress days oh personal best or I’m learning something or a learning day where it all just goes to crap learning consolidation day progress

day going to be one of those three right and I love the learning days you know if you practice properly you’re going to improve don’t get hung up on it of course you’re going to improve right do you Greg though when you when you do that do you do you see like I look at every day that I pick up my instrument as a learning day absolutely so you’re going to learn that you’ve improved or you’re going to learn that CU I guarantee you’ve had this

experience that I have you have that moment where you’ve played something for the first time or it was easier or you nailed the line and then what does the brain say I’m never going to be able to do that again that was a freak Incident That’s a freak accident and the fact that I’ve done that I’m never going to be able to do that again I used to live that when I was trying to develop range and technique back at University I did that today how

do I do it again how do I do it again I had no idea how I got there or what I did but I in trying to do it again and it would fail right so there’s this fear of being able to repeat the day before so that’s an expectation the reality is you’ve done it once so you’re going to be able to do it again one day when it happens it read Zen In The Art of archery everyone yeah when happens is when you’re consciously

detached from it all of the element involved in creating golf swing or playing the trumpet so many things can go wrong so many things need to go right and you can’t think about them all at the same time so you send the in I call them invitations as a drill you know I’d like people to walk around going all day for a month and tell themselves that’s what it feels like to [Music] play just do that every every day for a month tell yourself that’s what

it feels like to play trumpet and then when you pick up the trumpet and you go yep the more you’re aware of the difference between what you’re doing when you’re playing and the faster it is to learn that’s why I decided to do this golf thing left-handed because it feels insane ridiculous easy to learn right all the elements grip stance balance alignment visualization of where the ball wants to go don’t think about the swing um so yes we every day the intention is to improve yeah

but the understanding needs to be that I need to cement my Foundation there are very many levels of developing a solid foundation and so we need to repeat and repeat and the reason that I call them invitations is because there’s so many little drills to do you can’t think of about them all at the one time so you invite them regularly and often which is the same thing invite them daily it might be this it might be this it might be waah waah wa or y

y whatever you you you do all these little drills that you don’t really have to spend any conscious energy on and eventually they’ll turn up to the Past into the invitation they’ll turn up well you’re building habits really you’re building habits in in your practice and habits in performance and and it’s whether you’ve consciously built those habits or if you’ve just unconsciously done it and then all of a sudden this stuff happens in performance that you don’t want happening but it’s a habit so yeah I

if there’s anyone with focal distonia watching I know that this is going to possibly up upset some and that’s not the intention of saying it and I can just I can clarify the intention and there is a book out and there is a um a psychologist who says this is focal distonia is just a bad habit and let me tell you that would really upset people with focal Tonia but at the end of the day the body the brain is sending a message for muscles to

do things why is the brain sending this message because it’s in defense mode or it’s been trained to do it or we’re starting to think about it there’s confusion so it doesn’t know what to do so it’s sending mixed messages because you’re giving it mixed messages and all of a sudden muscles start doing things that they don’t they shouldn’t be doing that aren’t useful for playing trumpet or hitting a golf ball um we’ve developed bad habits and we need to develop good habits and I can

guarantee if everyone picked up the trumpet and went and that was their intention before they go to play a note that’s a nice State of Mind to be in and of course not if you’re playing the what’s it the Pines um Pines of Rome PS of Rome yeah you’re not going to sit there just go wish you could be nice so there’s degrees of it but but when you start to engage the body more do we start to go down negative efficiency uh Avenues yeah so

at the end of the day we’re developing healthy playing habits and healthy performance habits walking on stage you can practice that in your mind before I’m sure you do a lot of visualization techniques yeah yeah absolutely like visualization is is a great tool to use because you can again you can create everything in your mind and as long as it’s really Vivid and it’s using you know what it looks like what it sounds like what it feels like your brain can’t tell the difference between if

you’re visualizing something or if it’s actually happening so you can create this sense of certainty and and self-belief as well by just having this Crystal Clear idea in your mind and what this is also doing is clarifying what you want to actually do so it’s helping you be proactive um I would say living at cause so you’re living at cause rather than being effect of everything that’s going on correct and so so yeah visualizing just closing your eyes and hearing before you play something closing your

eyes and hearing what sort of a sound you want to create now I know a lot of players tend to struggle with this a bit because they think well I’m not playing my trumpet on I’m not playing my instrument so that doesn’t count as practice and what I actually I mean with a lot of my students yeah I I turn it around and I say I want you to play Less in your practice but think more so spend the time picturing what you want to create

spend the time thinking about all the different aspects of your playing so that when you pick up your instrument there is no doubt you know ex you’ve got your clear map you know exactly what want to create and then of course what comes out of your bell a much better product right I liken it to like building a house if you ever have you built a house before Greg well not personally but I had my house in Melbourne I knocked half of it well someone knocked

it down for me and rebuilt it so I saw the building process but I didn’t touch a hammer or a nail okay cool that’s a good way to do it but I mean before you do that you need to create a blueprint you’re not just going to knock your house down and then you know build something and hope it’s going to be there in 50 years time you create a clear blueprint and through visualization through clear planning you create that blueprint in your mind and if

that’s clear then you get a nice solid construction your house isn’t going to fall down whereas I see a lot of players they spend so much time playing and we don’t actually learn when we’re playing it’s all a product of what’s in here so if if you spend more time thinking and really working out how do I want this to sound then much more certainty comes out of your instrument you develop a high level of trust in your instrument and in yourself and that flows through

onto stage as well ABS so yeah so it’s like a continual process and that’s um that’s what like you were saying before how it’s you know you you it’s complex what we do like there’s so many things to think about and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing but it’s about having that clear plan and knowing where you’re going for when you get on stage if that’s really clear and planned out then you have much more certainty and the research has shown that if you’re

more certain in what you’re doing as you step on stage then you’ll perform better it’s it’s the one plus one approach what’s the one plus one approach [Music] a [Music] [Applause] [Music]