WindWorks Trumpet Academy Forums WindWorks Chin movement in lower register

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    • #11114
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Hi Greg and WW Folks,

      I’m really enjoying the way this course puts your playing under the microscope in a way that other methods don’t – I only see positive effects from following the exercises so far.

      My question is about the degree of chin (jaw) movement when changing partials in the lower register (ie low C up to second line G and lower). What I find is that I notice a small movement in jaw/horn angle when I move between these lower partials even in passive mode. Is this something I should be trying to eliminate in my playing or is it part of my ‘shape equation’. I don’t notice/feel this when moving from partials upwards of there, or if it exists its much smaller. My gut tells me that I could maybe win some more efficiency by working this – I can sustain semiquavers at 112 bpm between these two partials but there is still some horn/chin movement which I think ultimately limits how fast I can go!

      Interested to Gregg’s and others input on this.

      Cheers

      Carl

    • #11121
      stonesphear2
      Participant

      I’d bet if you try to work it it’ll set you back. On the other hand if you just let it happen your on to something.

    • #11133
      Ronald Carson
      Participant

      Take a look at this video:

      href=”https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=k09MLl7d2NA”>

      How much movement do you see Greg doing in the video?

      When he is playing slowly, I notice the jaw move which may result in the horn changing slightly with the shape change. What happens when he is doing super fast C-G slurs? I could be wrong, but I do not see as much movement of the jaw. His lips aperture corners seem to be working more and the horn stays rather steady. The shape change is probably still happening, but maybe it is more slight.

      What do think when you watch him?

      I cannot do the slurs nearly as fast. I do not know if I could ever get so coordinated lips to change that quickly. It makes me think there is something he is doing that I am not.

      Do you think you could do the slurs super fast with a lot of chin movement and horn pivot?

      I wonder also if your motion seems greater from your perspective. How would it look if you video a profile yourself?

      • #11135
        Ronald Carson
        Participant

        How about experimenting with the lead pipe?

        I tried it and it seems to help. Part of the whole shape change involves lips and tongue. Changing tongue position affects the jaw position, but I do not notice the pipe doing a lot, if any, pivoting.

    • #11140
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Quick video here – the movement feels a lot bigger than it looks here.

      The pivot gets bigger as I descend below C down to F#. If I consciously try and limit the pivot I can still play low but tone and flexibility suffer. It’s this that got me thinking PROCESS and if I should spend time ironing out things at the bottom end ( while working on everything else of course).

    • #11141
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      At the risk of opening up a whole other can of worms here is a video showing movement over the the full range – low F# to high C.

    • #11144
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Final vid I promise – but here is a better profile view. Spent a while getting my mic setup this morning so decided to record again!

    • #11169
      Ronald Carson
      Participant

      I do not see a problem. Slight pivoting as one plays higher to me is normal. Playing in the lower register, I believe, requires a looser, freer vibration of the lower lip and a slight upward pivot of the horn may allow for this.

      I am of the opinion that you are doing fine and concern is unwarranted. But this opinion comes from someone who has never had a lesson other than band classes 46 years ago. I decided to pick up the horn again for fun. So we will see what Maestro Spence has to say.

    • #11191
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Yeah – I think you’re right that it’s not too much of a problem. Some teachers advocate minimal movement of the jaw and I was thinking if I try this the lip corners will have to work more to create shape in the lower register ie. building habits that will feed into my playing in the higher register.

    • #11206
      JuttaC
      Participant

      Hello Carl,
      Absolutely nothing to do with chin movement, but is that a Malvern Instruments top you’re wearing? I wonder if we’re almost neighbours.

    • #11207
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Well spotted! Yes it is – I don’t work for them nowadays but still live in Malvern. Where are you?

    • #11216
      JuttaC
      Participant

      I’m in West Malvern. And we are both disciples of Greg who lives on the other side of the world? I think that’s really funny!! Mr. Google tells me that you play with the Malvern Big Band. (Sorry, yes, he is very intrusive!!) Are you playing in Colwall on 8 Dec? I’m intending to go to that.

      • #13130
        carl.levoguer
        Participant

        Hi Jutta, nice to meet you at the Malvern Big band gig the other day. Hope you enjoyed it!

        Keep up the good work with Greggs Wind Works.

        Cheers

        Carl

      • #13203
        JuttaC
        Participant

        Hi Carl,
        Not sure there’s any way of not posting this to the entire world, but anyway… Yes, really enjoyed the big band concert on Saturday. Malvern is so full of talented people! Loved hearing the flugelhorn/Flรผgelhorn in action. It’s my favourite brass instrument. Well done.

        Jutta

    • #11217
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Yep, apologies in advance, I shall be playing lead ๐Ÿ™‚ – be sure to introduce yourself if you come along. Cheers. Carl

    • #11267
      Ronald Carson
      Participant

      I was playing lip slurs. Third time through, I thought: close eyes, take the breath, aah-oooh, mouthpiece…

      As I was playing a felt the sensation, airstream, notes playing on the airstream…

      Air… Air… Sound…

      Lips doing their thing responding to my expectation, but the air carrying my expectations. I did not think about the tongue, but it was doing its thing.

      Follow the program, thinking is good, discovery is good. Overthinking may lead us down an ugly path.

      You are playing at a higher level than I. We both, however, approach this with knowledge and expectations to play better. The downside of experience is the tendency to rush the process. Not that you are doing this, but I am discovering that is my problem. I am uncertain I will ever play the two-note slurs as super fast as Greg, but I should never think that Greg was born able to do that. So there must be a process that allows it to happen. We trust the process and do not rush it.

      Carl, I saw your YouTube video. I found it instructive. Your upcoming gig will go well.

      I have a lot more have more to practice.

      Ronald

    • #11274
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Hi Ronald, The funny thing about trumpet playing is that you have a lot of technique and musical knowledge and still have deficiencies in your sound production/playing machine. For me I really have a problem playing consistently above High D/E, even though I can play for hours below those notes – no matter how much I practice any improvements are very slight. I think this is maybe more to do with my lips/teeth/jaw structure than overall approach, but any benefits I can gain from this method are useful – I study lots of methods/approaches and take the stuff that works with me. I really believe in Gregs approach and the ‘non forcing’ mindset can only benefit all players. Good luck with your trumpet adventure!

    • #11494
      Greg Spence
      Keymaster

      Hey guys, we are after minimal movement; no movement is impossible. The Low C to G partial is the biggest interval on the horn being a 5th, more than 1/2 an octave!!! ๐Ÿ™‚ There has to be changes or the notes would not change. People have this idea that the jaw should not move AT ALL, this is simply not right. Are you all signed up to the WindWorks Members Facebook LIVE group? We have a live Q+A in session in 40 minutes. Join here https://www.facebook.com/groups/273514453241915/ Cheers, Greg

    • #11541
      carl.levoguer
      Participant

      Thanks for your input Greg – good to know your take on it – seems to make sense to me. Sorry I couldn’t make the live session as I was at a rehearsal – was it recorded/archived?

      • #11556
        Greg Spence
        Keymaster

        Yep, itโ€™s avaiable to watch at the FB page. Cheers

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