This is a great place to learn the trumpet.

Now getting to the question about what you are doing.

Lips: Do not curl, roll, or clamp. The shape change involves the aperture corners, the jaw, and the tongue.

Practice the concert hall breath and then say aah-ooh – that’s your embouchure. Practice this over and over and again. Release your air into a strip of tissue as demonstrated using the “tu” syllable.

It is important that you practice this often and then practice the leadpipe. When you play C on the trumpet, you should have a good or great sound. Play C# and F# without slurring and each note should sound good. Copy Greg’s sound.

Playing lower notes and higher notes by pivoting the horn is something you should NOT be doing. Any pivot that happens is very minor and would barely be noticeable. You should not consciously shift the horn’s angle or position to play C# to F#. (Maybe Greg should rerecord that demonstration. It could be because the volume air and an exaggerated change in his tongue and jaw position are causing his horn to pivot up and down.) Step 4 is a better demonstration of what you should be doing. Learn slurring from C# to F# by a change in aperture corners with a slight change of the tongue and jaw. The back of the tongue will rise a little and the jaw may close a little when changing to F#. The tongue/jaw lowers when playing C#. Any motion of the horn is very slight as the shape changes.

Welcome!

Since you feel that you are forcing to get the note you’re reaching for and because you describe what sounds like a lot of movement and something similar to how I played and I think how Greg described he himself played (rolling bottom lip under, blowing downward, bell down to the floor, head back, etc.)…you probably are not achieving a natural and optimally efficient embouchure, aperture, etc.

But I would be careful not to overthink it, especially as a beginner.

In my opinion, the best way to play is the most natural, forward and consistent way possible for you–based on your physiology, mouthpiece, instrument, etc.

The biggest problem we face is mental, not physical. This website and many of those on this forum are here because they over-thought playing and thought it is harder than it truly is. We get in our own way. Playing trumpet is a paradox in many ways.

I believe Ron’s post above appears spot on. Very little movement is required to go from low C# to F# on the staff, just a Slight engagement of the aperture corners (the muscles you feel when saying “Oooohhhh”) and perhaps a little tongue arch (perhaps Ohhhhhh on the low C# to Aaahhhh on the F#, it’s probably a little different for each of us). What helped me is using consistent air–releasing air, not blowing it–it’s crucially important that you separate Air (needed for long or loud notes) from Shape (used for pitch change). Some of us tend to over blow to push through an inefficient embouchure to obtain a pitch we’re shooting for, but it won’t sound as good as we’re releasing air through an efficient, open (as much as possible) aperture with relaxed lips (only tension is in the corners, outside edges–not the vibrating surface).

Things we can observe that help us determine if we’re “doing it right” (a relative term/concept; everyone can always try to improve):

1. Does it feel good, natural, efficient?
2. What does it sound like? Do you like the sound, is it resonant? Could it be more resonant?
3. Is it efficient–how fast can you do harmonic slurs to /from other notes? How long can you hold the note out or do harmonic slurs for? Careful not to over do it too soon.

I still play with my horn slanted down a bit, bell towards the floor. That’s just how it works naturally for me–as I learned in part from the tissue exercise, etc.

But I no longer roll my bottom lip under my top lip and blow down towards my feet.

In my opinion, it’s very difficult, perhaps impossible to explain precisely what to do with your face / aperture to change pitch. Greg, I believe, has done it better and more detailed than most–perhaps anyone else. And I’ve learned a lot from WindWorks.

But, ideally, it would be 2nd nature–and that is the ultimate goal. We can’t think about what the lips are doing, we need to think about the music, how it sounds, what the conductor is doing, or the band or other performers, etc.

And, I try actually not to think about it–I try to set things up as naturally and relaxed as possible, release air through my lips (breath attach), stay relaxed and let the lips respond to the air as I ascend and I try to move as little as possible and just keep my lips in the mouthpiece and as straightforward as possible. The aperture is reduced gradually by the contraction of the corners but the jaw moves down to keep the aperture from collapsing / closing shut and the tongue arches (aaaahhh eeeeeeee).

I try not to think about it and just let the lips respond to the air, but if I run into difficulties then I pay closer attention and tweak things as needed.

Obviously since you’re a beginner, you may need a little more information–the best thing is Greg’s “engage the aperture corners inwards from the sides, horizontally (“oooohhhhh”). What we’re doing is engaging the muscles surrounding the lips to reduce the aperture inwards towards the center of the mouthpiece center / air column.

One thing you could try would be doing some chromatic scales from C# to F# followed by some harmonic slurs and observing how the lips move ever so slightly each half step. Or you could try doing gradually increasing intervals (i.e. C# to D, then C# to D#, C# to E, etc.), but make sure you’re using steady air (ideally Passively released air).

Experiment! And you have to Own Your playing. Greg and others can be a guide for you, but ultimately Your success or failure will be yours alone. You can’t just repeat exercises blindly and expect to get results–trust me on that one… 😉 Since you posted this to begin with, you’re on a great start and hopefully won’t waste as much time as I have in the past–learn from my mistakes!

Hope that helps, FWIW. Best of luck–keep us posted on how you’re doing and best of luck to you! As Ron said, you’re in a great place.

Nice! Glad if our posts helped you, that’s what the forum is for.

I have been thinking of this thread today as I was trying to play relaxed and using a consistent embouchure. I had good sensations using one setting for Pedal C, Low C and High C and minimal changes.

When playing a low C, rest and breath Middle C (staff), rest and breath then High C, I had the sensation of my lips naturally falling back against my teeth followed by another breath attack (“Huhhh”) and slightly different tongue arch, unnoticeable change in aperture and the middle C came out. I try to pay close attention to how much more difficult the middle C is than the low C and imagine that difference should be about the difference of mid C to High C is (not much) and firm up the corners only and lead/start with the air (“Huhhh”) and use the corners and air released (without a kick) as the foundation of the shape to release the air column through, then I modulate the aperture opening and air to maximize the tone quality / resonance.

The lips themselves should be relaxed so they can vibrate as freely as possible, etc.

Definitely had a feeling that my embouchure was pretty forward with my teeth open, corners firm but lips relaxed.

I know it’s different, but I relate it to whistling and pursing your lips and noticing how the pitch stops when you engage those muscles vs letting the stay relaxed and only engaging the corners.

Now I just need to do some more Wind Works exercises articulating different ways with Active and Passive air at different dynamics.

Hi All,

Great posts. Love the support! The support from everyone is worth the monthly ee in itself!
I just started the course as a fundamental member. I am also a beginner. I started about year ago or so.

I will say, I have some similar feelings playing step 1 of singing C.
I find I am asking myself, “should I know how to change the shape of my embouchure corners yet to change the pitch? Because I am pretty sure it has not been covered in the program. Has it already been taught in this course?”

Thus, as a learner, it is tough for someone to tell you –Try this exercise where you need to change the pitch even though I haven’t taught you how to change the pitch yet the way I want you to –.
I understand this will be thought more later. I also understand that it is just feeling it out and trying.

The challenge of online learning or distance learning or self-learning (youtube), is that when learners are asked to do things that are beyond their abilities without the presence and assurance of a mentor or teacher, they feel overwhelmed and confused.

I can tell that Greg has gone through great lengths to avoid this and reassure us to be patient and trust in the process and time. And, all his reassurance HAS BEEN SO COMFORTING AND HELPFUL TO ME. I still feel like the original person who posted, HOWEVER, I can hear Greg in my head telling me PROCESS NOT RESULT! 🙂 Gonna keep with it. Excited to see what I learn from Greg and all of you!

Hi Tandeitnik, I am only on the Largo Sing C step 3, but I agree with you on this.

I am really having a hard time with the fact that Greg keeps mentioned how the MOST IMPORTANT THING is changing the shape – don’t tighten, don’t clamp – but just change shape. It is in all his videos and written in all the text. HOWEVER, there has been no talk of HOW to create this shape change in our lips or mouth. It is quite frustrating. I am working hard to not let it bother me as I just try but, as you said, I am writing in my journal notes like…
“What is the difference between clamping lips and changing shape?”
“Am I clamping or changing shape?”

The image above is ok, but I think there needs to be more explicit teaching about changing shape if it is going to be reiterated as one of the most important components to making these exercises work. I am achieving step 3…but I still don’t know if I am clamping or changing shape.

I am hoping Greg will respond to this. The confusion in the tasks is taking away from the experience for me.

Ivanessa, I am sorry that you are experiencing some
frustrations. It has been a long time since I watched Greg’s video on shape
change presented in the Largo Fundamentals (Leadpipe – Shape). I was pleased
that he has expanded the notes beneath the video.

SHAPE consists of:
Lips,
Jaw,
Facial Muscles,
Tongue Position.
Pitch change comes from SHAPE change.

Hopefully, you have practiced with the leadpipe. If you do not have one and do not have a large straw, you can pull out your tuning slide and use your horn’s leadpipe. This is a great place to learn about beginning shape change. Greg, at this point, is having the student focus on the aperture corners. As you get higher and lower notes on the instrument you will use more jaw and tongue changes. The changes in the tongue and jaw can be understood using the vowel sounds such as aww (tongue down, jaw down) and “eee” or using the vowel sound in the word “it” (back of the tongue raised and the jaw more closed.), For now, focus on the lip’s aperture corners. When Greg plays extreme low sounds on the leadpipe and much higher pitches, he is using a combination of all the factors of shape change to be given in later lessons.

How to know if you are clamping.
Make the “m” sound as in “moo”, the lips are together.
If you then were to muscle the lips together as if you were trying to keep someone from giving you some nasty-tasting medicine in a spoon, that is clamping. If you were to complete the word “moo”, you have something very much the same as Greg’s “ahh-oo” aperture. The lips are not clamped and the middle of the lips has a nice opening.

You may have read Greg’s “The Premium Level” ad before “The Largo Singing C Series”. You will notice
he says you get, “get MTM eBook 1 (PRINTABLE) and lifetime access to the interactive eBook”.
The “MTM eBook 1” is written for beginning trumpet players. Using it along with WindWorks could possibly help.

Ivaness, I do not want you to think you have to do leadpipe exercises as the only way for you to develop aperture corners. Harmonic exercises are the basis for developing trumpet superpowers.

I am writing to underline the importance of your developing corners by using harmonic slurs. I confess this has never been a routine of mine. I mainly used the tongue when slurring intervals and not the aperture corners. I used harmonic slurs as a tongue exercise. I also used extra pressure to change notes as I ascended. I am using harmonic slurs to break these bad habits. I am learning to use my aperture corners. We need to practice aperture corners and not worry about other techniques at this point.

Great points Ron!

Shape is the formation of the aperture using muscles in our face and tongue level.

We want the engagement of muscles on the outside of the Mouthpiece and keep top lip relaxed as its what vibrates and needs to vibrate fast to achieve a high pitch.

Harmonic slurs help us hone in on efficient Shape change if we diligently don’t use air to kick. Constant, passively released air helped me isolate what Shape consists of. We are all different, so Greg cant tell anyone what precisely/exactly to do.

But, generally speaking, the bottom line is that we want to gradually (slightly) reduce the size of the aperture as we ascend without engaging the vibrating surface directly or over tightening / closing off the air.

Resonance is optimal efficiency and is the optimal Balance of Shape, and Air.

Good luck, hope this helps FWIW.