Here are parts of a reply to an email I recently sent:

Some answers for you:

What is your motivation for playing trumpet, pleasure or proving something? Yes a question can be an answer haha

Accepting not fighting the beast That’s what we were doing the other day making your stare it in the face Smile

Acceptance of the new approach I think you are there

Interrupting the automatic response

Give in and listen to your body

Your body is you ally not your enemy and that goes for your trumpet as well

Remove negative emotion and unwanted tension Easily said and actually easily done physically, just not psychologically

Ignore what you considered to be THE way from years gone by I’m pretty sure you have got this!

Tick those boxes and explore your trigger points then create a “non-default” pathway to find the beautiful sound you want to create.

NO emotional attachment to the immediate RESULT
NO impatience
NO false expectations

SIMPLY a love of playing the trumpet for the joy that the sound can bring.

Stew on all of that haha

Cheers,
Greg

Over analysis leads to paralysis.
Take a break.
Personally I don’t get the obsession to scream over high C ever was or is in the first place,
May as well get a piccolo and learn how to play C to F# below the staff for all the good it does to tear your hair out over the inability to play beyond what the instrument is designed for.
What I’m really getting at here is that once you get wound up too tight because you can’t do whatever feat you are trying to pull off you are finished until step back , take a break ,clear your mind , relax and understand that ultimately, the ultimate trick to the whole 9 yards , is time with the horn on the face, not days, not weeks, not months ,
YEARS and more YEARS. It’s the nature of the beast and that is exactly why I love it, what say you ?

I saw the original post and related a lot to it. I imagine everyone on this site does and Greg certainly does and has personally made it through to a successful resolution of the exact problem you’re facing.

I love the videos Larry has posted and he’s clearly a monster player. I found some of his videos helpful, but felt that the pencil exercise might be a risky diatraction–what it I did it wrong and caused more harm than good?

I’m not a pro, I dreamed of that in high school and early college but came to the realization I just didn’t have the skill and moved on 25 years ago.

I never, ever hit a high C. G above the staff was the top of my practical range. I do recall squeaking out a b natural a time or 2 in high school / college, but never touched a high C.

In early 2018, I began playing again and thanks to the “University of YouTube”, I have mastered the range through high C and even have D and E pretty well I’m control. I’m touching Double G but am avoiding focusing on range right now. I want to master the range I have than try to expand it further, for now.

My main problem, physically, was clamping down the middle of my top lip as I ascended and pivoting my head back and tucking my lower lip in–I recall a well respected teacher I studied from telling me to roll in my lower lip–oh well, no regrets. I’m happy.

I credit Greg / MTM / WindWorks with the bulk of my enlightenment in playing and helping me understand, for the first time, what many of the method books I used to practice a lot actually mean.

I’m no master and probably never will be; I don’t have a lot of the time to practice but I have made it to a point on this journey where I’m confident that I finally understand a lot more about playing than ever.

A lot of the journey for me when I was younger and even now, is mental.

I recognize in your post the frustration I have felt many times over many years.

The challenge is to let go of that frustration and any expectation of success or failure in trying the method as described and approach it with an open mind without any pre-conceived notions, except that less is more and focus on a resonant sound.

The mental letting go may be the hardest part; it certainly was for me and I suspect it was for many, many others.

I believe you can play a double C and I believe that takes more coordination of aperture corner tightness and air control and support than strength or natural talent.

I believe I can too, and that I will; in time. I don’t know when or frankly care. I have enjoyed this journey so far and am looking forward to wherever it takes me–even if it is no further than as far as I have come.

When I focus well, the ease and efficiency of playing, quality of sound and range I have experienced is like nothing I have ever experienced or thought possible.

The saying “Whether you believe you can, or believe you can’t, you are right” comes to mind.

So much of this is mental, even spiritual, and both can help and can hurt our ability.

Keep the faith. You can do this. It’s not as hard as it seems. We just make it more difficult for ourselves.

HERE IT IS! Be patient, watch it all, all the way to the end. There is a lifetime of work in this video and it is by far the most important video I have ever done IMOHO! 🙂

Beautiful, thanks Greg. God bless you and your mother.

Today is my daughter’s 10th birthday–amazing how time flies faster each year. Puts things in perspective.

Your video was very helpful to me and I’m sure will be helpful to many more.

I ran across focal dystonia and Phil Smith’s experience. I wonder if I experienced a sort of focal dystonia in a way, in a positive way; I wonder if focal dystonia can be experienced by us as a way of unlearning old, bad habits.

Been making it a point to play more music lately–I think that’s important. I have limited time so it’s tempting to just work through things quickly and move from warm up to flexibility to range, etc. and never play music. Seems I play better when at least a portion of my practice / playing is musical.

Thanks for your generosity.

I think you and the original poster and all who teach who go through this struggle are better teachers for it. The more you struggle, the better teacher you become.

I think those I took from were natural players who didn’t realize what I was going through.

I will be watching this one over and over…resonated with me at such a deep, emotional level. This is healthy playing psychology…this is healthy playing physiology…balance. Thank you for making this one (including the ocean :-), and the passion and effort you put into teaching and learning. This video should be shared far and wide. It will be helpful to so many.

Not sure you understood my recommendation–it was to spend some time with the horn where you place your lips to the mouthpiece as Greg describes, Mmmmmmwwwwwaaaaahhhhhhooooooo, perhaps more of a “forward” embouchre than what you’re used to (than what I was used to), with the sensation of OOOoooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh (tightening the corners).

I recommend trying octaves low G below the staff to G on the staff to G above the staff by just tightening (slightly, only as much as needed; be willing to miss the note), then A…

I felt how little incremental effort the G above the staff is than the G on the staff is…

Then I moved to A… I think you’ll experience what I did–a revelation that the A is right there just by tightening the corners slightly, it’s not hard and requires no kick of the air or tilting back of the head, rolling in of the lip. It’s just right there.
And that B is only 2 half notes above that, and high C is only 1/2 a step higher…

For me, that was the big reveal that led me shortly thereafter to playing my first ever High C.

I’ve been having great sensations lately, this morning was great–seems like Double G is becoming part of my useful range now and I’m moving up to A natural, which is only a stones throw to Double C–my ultimate goal. I think my ultimate goal would be to “own” a Double C, nothing higher.

Now, when I play/practice, I don’t get tired to the point that I start losing range anymore like when I was in high school / practicing a ton. Now, my new way of playing seems more efficient and effective where I’m not tearing myself down anymore but am building myself up.

Looking forward to seeing your post when you have your “coffee moment” as Greg describes… Keep at it, it will come in only a matter of a short time…if you let go.

Got it. I think the long break I took helped me avoid repeating mistakes from the past and force myself to focus on new sensations. I didn’t personally spend a lot of time on the visualiser, but perhaps that’s why I wound up sliding backwards and losing my way a bit. Hopefully you avoid that experience, but progress is rarely a straight line upward.

I’m having great experiences lately, again this morning–I had practiced 2X yesterday (in the morning and again in the evening after work). And I did a lot of flexibility exercises pushing through the max of my range. I tried not to push too hard into Gladiator Trumpet, but figured I’d be a little stiff or tired this morning since it wasn’t that long since I practiced the evening before.

Instead, my chops felt and performed amazing, felt pretty fresh even though there was a slight tingle feeling like they were still recovering.

My harmonic slurs moved up 2-3 levels and my ability to play is strengthening. I’ve been more consistent lately doing some flexibility exercises without removing the mouthpiece from my lips and not resting till I get through it. It’s not too taxing, but I do feel like it’s doing something for me in building up my endurance.

Also think I had somewhat of an epiphany / coffee moment in that I think I was perhaps overdoing my avoiding pressure on my lips and might have been not achieving a great seal on my top lip and may have kind of been pulling away slightly still towards the top of my range. I think it was subtle but it seems there was something slightly wrong which may have been attributing to my lack of dynamic control; my sound felt a little thin towards the top of my range.

I started placing the top of the mouthpiece on my lips first rather than the bottom and tilting upward; minor thing I suppose but it seems like it’s helping me achieve a better seal and have even better sensations and feel what my lips are doing / supposed to be doing as I ascend and may be helping me get better compression in my lips (not kicking with my abs / the air) as I ascend.

I’m having a sensation of my top lip between the mouthpiece and my teeth as I ascend, whereas when I was younger I think I kind of avoided that feeling by thinning out my lips and pivoting the bell down / head back and rolling my lip in/under. I was probably smashing my lips a bit, therefore losing endurance, strength, tearing myself down.

Now, I don’t move much at all I just kind of tighten my lips gradually from the corners/sides, slightly towards the center of the aperture as I ascend. At times, I do get a slight sensation that my top lip is getting squished into a “fish face” type feeling but the notes are coming well and easier than I ever imagined possible and it all is feeling more and more right and consistent.

I can’t wait to play tomorrow (Saturday), when I won’t have to play too early or late and won’t need the mute and can blow free and see where my range and dynamic control is at and how it feels to blow free, how my sound is doing, etc.

Sorry for the long post(s), don’t mean to hijack the thread. I’m excited for you–I think you’re close to having the “coffee moment”; it’s just a matter of time, relaxing and letting go and just experimenting / experiencing different sensations and focusing on what makes your sound more resonant and it easier to do harmonic slurs and what makes those things harder / worse, then refining and refining until you’ve finally narrowed your focus into a smaller circle.

All my best, John.

John and wjtakacs,

I’ve been following your posts with interest. I had aspired to progress quite far with the horn, although I was a pianist first, and started on the horn in my late 40s. I’m currently dealing with some serious playing issues that seemed to build as I continued to play with too much tension, particularly with more challenging repertoire. Over the years, I’ve been taught a spectrum of concepts and techniques, especially regarding air support, embouchure, horn angle and playing effort. Now I’m finding that everything has come to a head, and I can’t run from my situation. I must fix it if I aspire to continue playing and performing with the groups I’ve been in. Part of this involves surrendering to the rebuilding process, letting go of control, being willing to sound like crap, trusting the direction, not paralyzing myself with over-analysis and not being hard on myself. This is a difficult journey, and I’m not sure where it will lead, but I know I can’t continue to play the way I have in the past. It takes time to undo old patterns and replace them with healthier ones. I also believe that when we reach a point of surrender, we open ourselves up to the best opportunity to make positive, lasting change.

Welcome to the journey, Wild_flower. For what it’s worth, it seems to me that the deeper the valley / the darker the bottom we reach, the sweeter it is when we resolve our issues and are free.

And, I believe, the whole point of it all is that it’s much easier than we’re making it out to be. If we think about it, the whole point of it all is that we need to interact with the air column as little as possible–only enough to nudge it the way we need to (i.e. tighten the aperture to change pitch). Less is more, less air is required the higher we ascend, etc.

I’m still on the journey as well and catch myself doing stupid stuff (i.e. kicking with the air to reach even higher, etc.) but more an more with time I feel like I’m solidifying good sensations, good new understandings of what I should be doing with slight adjustments to my embouchre, etc.

I’m confident that you’ll get there in time and that I’ll continue progressing as well. It helped me reading the pointers at the bottom of the WIndWorks home page, watching the videos, doing the lessons and expirimenting with the concepts in my own way so I understood it for myself.

When I was in high school and junior high and into college, I took a lot of lessons from reputable teachers and practiced countless hours of Clarke, Arban, Schlossberg, Stamp, etc., etc. But I never progressed much above the staff.

At the end of the day, we can’t just show up and go through the motions and expect to get a result that we want. We must own what we’re doing, understand it for ourselves and do it in such a way that benefits us or we’re not going to get the results we want or need. We need to understand what each exercise is doing,

For me, the magic was in the ease of which harmonic slurs, especially octaves, began happening when I focused on what WindWorks suggests, tightening my embouchre / the aperture from the corners/sides and keeping the middle of my upper lip relaxed / trying not to clamp down in the middle and focusing on not kicking the air / staying relaxed in my throat, etc. It felt weird and didn’t seem to make sense and like it would never work, but I gave it a shot and was willing to fail / miss the note–no big deal, nothing bad would happen from that, I would just learn another way that didn’t work. But it did work and I got a glimpse into a different way of playing that now makes more sense and connects to what was described in many of the other method books–I understand what Clarke meant when he wrote that the lips should tighten towards the mouthpiece as you ascend. I think I misunderstood that before, that I should clamp down top to bottom. He really meant contract in a circle towards the center of the air column flowing through the mouthpiece like Maggio described and how WindWorks describes. All the methods seem now to be more alike than not, whereas before they seemed contradictory to each other in a lot of ways.

One thing I did that helped me personally too was focusing on my whistling. I always liked whistling and my playing the trumpet seemed to help me be a better whistler; I’m not sure how much of a correlation there is or if this will help others. But I noticed that when I wanted to whistle higher, I arch my tongue while tightening my lips towards the air column going through the aperture in my lips and that when I focused on clamping down from the top of my middle lip downward, the vibration stopped and the sound stopped. Also, the pitch stops when we’re whistling if we overblow. There are obviously differences between whistling and playing trumpet, but that helped me a bit mentally as I tried focusing on doing the right thing when playing, etc. FWIW

Good luck!

Thank you Bill and Greg for your masterclass in how this sight works. Invaluable to us all.
It has reinforced my recent thoughts re purity of process. Having dipped into Emerald after some reasonable responses in Ruby I have gone through all the course from the beginning yet again in the last few weeks and have reached Andante A. Each time I go back it is more demanding to get the initial exercises absolutely perfect as the magnifying glass shows more detail. It is a long road but each time I go back I feel the general improvement in my playing and I do many more repetitions of Largo to warm up after 5 minutes on trombone. I then do whatever status I have reached. I hope to get back to Ruby and beyond but without compromise.

Thank you Greg for your devotion to the cause.

This is crazy, I’ve read this thread several times over the last month or so. I was about to post something when I read Bill’s post, and was surprised at how similar his story was to mine.

For me, full time playing and teaching career, with years and years of lessons, books, clinics, methods, and systems, with virtually no increase in range or endurance. However,
I’m noticing some positive changes in these last few months.

I’m finally getting a grasp on the aah-oooh set up. I play waaaaay too tense and over breathe on everything, but I’m noticing it and slowly eliminating it. With my current set up, I can get through almost the whole program, but with lots of pressure, clamping, and tension (and pain!). Also there’s not much volume above a third leger line E above the staff since I curl my bottom lip under my top lip which starts around a top space G.

While doing the exercises, I frequently have my left hand on my stomach to ensure I’m playing completely passive. It’s made a huge difference in endurance and my mouth compression has increased a ton.

During my normal set up, I’ve been able to transfer more pressure to my bottom lip, which increases endurance e a lot. There’s still a long way to go to ever be able to play with any real volume up high, which is why I’m biking my “second building.”

I’m not sure if this question has been asked, but it seems like many have the same concern, just worded differently:

Will the “two buildings” magically merge one day? Or will I eventually switch over once my new building has enough repetitions and strength built up?

Thanks in advance, there’s been so much great info here.

Hi Kzem,

Here’s a video in which Greg explains the two building concept–I believe it starts at about 21:03 in this video if you want to skip ahead. The whole video is useful/great.

I can’t really advise on how the 2 building concept works as I did not have playing commitments to tend to, so I dove completely into playing a new way and experimenting.

But my understanding is that gradually, our brains develop new neural pathways based upon the new sensations and one day we no longer have 2 ways of playing but one optimally efficient way.

Hope that helps, FWIW, my $.02, etc. Happy Holidays.

What a great thread! Bill – thanks for being brave and vulnerable to share your struggles!

I do want to remind you, all of you really, that YOU are NOT your trumpet playing! If you play well, or play poorly, it is absolutely no reflection on YOU as a person.

You’ve had a lifetime of learning the traditional, less effective way of playing. This way was taught to you by well-meaning band directors and instructors just trying to see you achieve playing that one note, that one musical selection, and they likely don’t know how to play freely and efficiently either. They assume this is how everyone does it (because nearly everyone does play inefficiently).

Be patient – and be kind to yourself – and be willing to explore a new way.

I’m having a problem right now where, as I try to migrate to a new tone, I’m developing crappy habits with my normal playing. I’m finding that I can’t hit notes accurately, when that NEVER used to be an issue I had.

The way I’m fixing it lately has been by purposefully switching back to my old bad habits, and then trying to let the new habits come in to make me feel better when I remember that clenching my throat feels just as crappy as hitting bad notes.

I’m just wrapping up largo fundamentals, and I’m really hoping there will be some exercises or advice for navigating this switch. It hasn’t been an issue at shows yet (in fact, at a recent live show, some folks who had seen me play a couple years ago told me they were amazed at how well my tone has progressed)… YET… but this new open-but-crap playing is kind of scaring me.

Any thoughts on this are appreciated; I’m also just commenting here to process what I’ve learned and skimmed through on the forum so far, as well as to set an email notice reminder to myself to come back to this thread and read more bits of it. It’s long and it looks like y’all have put a lot of thought into these subjects; sorry if I repeated anything that was already discussed!